Curse

Lady Lozza · Feb 20, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Actually heal party does have a range limit - the compass.

asdar · Feb 20, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I hope they don't nerf anything. Things are very balanced right now. I think they could boost a couple of skills that were nerfed in the past starting with elemental area damage skills.

I'm not an ele, just saying that they got the short end.

I don't think any single skill is overpowered, I think there are a few underpowered ones that nobody can use competitively in any situation and I think those should get a slight boost.

fenix · Feb 20, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

The thing is though, skills arent overpowered, it's that IWAY (the main concern) is overused. Anet hate people overusing a build, which is why they nerf skills, either because of no diversity in builds, or a skill/skills being overpowered. In this case, there is two builds in Heroes Ascent. IWAY, and anti-IWAY, which is why there most likely will be a nerf.

dargon · Feb 20, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjutsu Honor Code

Why not nerf SS I'm sure taking damage for whatever you do is slightly overpowered, especially in pvp. I had to fight a group of 2 monks 1 trapper and a SS necro in CA the SS kinda wiped my team and i didnt stand a chance against them so i just keep running in circles avoiding traps not using any skills because of SS and i cant get past 2 monks on my own. They called me a griefer for that well i might have been one but tehy deserved it for that annoying hex but i managed to win the fight by just boring them out of it.

Because most parties in GvG have some form of hex removal to take care of SS. CA can't really be compared due to it's random/unique nature.

nitrile · Feb 20, 2006, 02:32 PM // 14:32

As a PvE player with no interest in PvP, my own pet hate (asides from book/keg/gear "trick"ing) is against protective spirit. This skill is the root of my biggest problem with the game at the moment, a 55 monk running around anywhere with substandard enchant removal with relative impunity.

From my point of view an adjustment to PS would be to somehow change it without making it useless for the purpose I see it as being intended for - by a protector monk or hybrid healer, for reducing recieved damage to a manageable level, and not the farming it's been coopted for. Making it target other ally would probably be excessive. So I'd have it apply a minimum number to the level at which it would reduce damage, say 20 or 30 (effective health level of 200 or 300hp) - no regular build would have significantly less than that even with dp. (Another possibility could be to give PS a low 1-5% chance to fail, though the 55 could still be Vengeance resurrected and switching super/minor runes in armour sets to keep in 40-80hp range with that, and work off dp.)

I play monk as healer/protect about 75% of the time even though I've 5 other PvE chars I've finished the game with, and this would serve my purposes (that would be keeping people alive) while screwing all those mostly asian 55 farmers that seem to exist for no other purpose on euro english districts and doubtless everywhere else, 24/7 both in augury, or ToA.

But this is just my perspective. I've given up hope that Anet care about this as much as I do. Of course even if PS is adjusted people will come up with other ways, but with 55'ing at an epidemic it's about time people invented something new. Flame away.

antialias02 · Feb 20, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

People asking for a Distortion nerf are crazy. The skill isn't that significantly overpowered. If you have more than one war/ranger on you, the energy cost goes up significantly, and you end up having to run away for LONGER because you need to recharge. And if they stay on you long enough, you're just boned anyway.

There aren't really a lot of skills that need to be nerfed, in all honesty. A little balance may be necessary, but they don't have to change every single skill listed in this thread in order to bring the game back into a balance.

Kakumei · Feb 20, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaserLight

The bloody Monks carry ReSiggies as opposed to hard resurrects.

You should probably not base your opinions on Random Arenas.

In regards to the topic, I really hope Gale is looked at. That one more than anything jumps out at me.

geminisaga · Feb 21, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

nerf mending

Caoimhe · Feb 21, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i can GUARANTEE the following

1 screams of anguish

2 sighs of relief

3 shouts of joy

your mix may vary and is subject to what you do and how it was affected

EDIT FOR MOST IMPORTANT

4. HOWLS OF OUTRAGE

QFT. Evidently a long-time forum user, and not just these forums, either. Expect any and all of the above; it's as certain as death.

Funny how rarely we hear about things that get done right, but the minute somebody's personal hobby horse gets affected, it's as though someone ordered rare steak at a vegetarian meeting. And of course, that's what forums are for: to gripe and moan and complain.

Now, all that said, I do have to acknowledge that of the many game forums I've been with, this one seems to have a more mature and reasonable audience. Not saying the flamers aren't there, just saying they're a little more sedate here. Thanks to the mods for that.

fenix · Feb 21, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

You're forgetting one important one:

Howls of Laughter when I get put against teams still trying to run IWAY

twicky_kid · Feb 21, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Ensign I do agree with you that you can pump heal party endlessly. There is a balance on the flip side that pushes degen builds over the edge when I've used it. Spreading Scourge healing is devistating to any heal party user. Its very easy to splice in the many pressure builds. Getting nailed for 100+ dmg each time you use it does hurt. Also puts a huge curve on oob as well. Getting dmg every time you heal + dmg to keep your energy up is a losing battle.

As for the res sig it does not need to be changed. The only reason it is viable is for 2 reasons: Every class can use it and fastest cast time of any other res. The life gain is irrelevant. Using hard reses you know to focus some healing on the target. Dp makes you easier to kill and you res with no energy. Res sigs do not make IWAY dangerous. EoE, orders, and eviscerate makes IWAY dangerous.

Speaking of EoE why has no one else even mentioned it so far? Its insanely powerful and can hit outside of its area. Spirits are in my book THE most dangerous things in GW. We know that stategy to your environment will win you the game. Your build has to be able to function in that environment. Spirits alter the environment for everyone changing the balance of 1 build vs another.

XSniper · Feb 21, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

wtf. Balancing doesnt mean nerf every skill that is useful.

just cuz every player in the gwwc uses those non necro skills doesnt mean they are overpowered it means they are at the perfect level of usefulness to cost.

I agree with icemonkey
Balancing is not about changing a skill because you get your asses kicked because you cant think of a way to counter it.
Why dont you guys try different combos that counter most of these skills that you want to nerf instead of whining about how much you want to nerf them.
If it was up to you guys we would have every skill nerfed with in the next few weeks and the game will revert to just using weapons.. and thoes will be nerfed soon probably as well.

LaserLight · Feb 21, 2006, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Hm hm...ye know what they call it when someone runs a build designed to destroy another type of build?

Metagame/Counter-game. Or, in this thread, the oft-mentioned Anti-IWAY!

The general point (or my point anyways) is that PvP has come to the point of either play IWAY or play Anti-IWAY. This needs to stop. Not because IWAY is overpowered, but because it is overused. It's a relatively simple build to run that actually encourages/rewards mindless beatrushing, as the deaths that inevitably occur with a relentless charge simply fuel your fellow IWAY-ers. I'm not saying IWAY players, at least on the GWWC level, are stupid. I'm saying that, at least at the average level, you can be stupid and still successfully run the current IWAY. And thus, it gets run by multitudes of stupid people and is seen in such overwhelming numbers that more intelligent/discerning players who do not wish to run a Suicide Warrior build must design their builds with at least one eye towards defeating, specifically, IWAY.

This, obviously, sucks.

And since you can't rely on stupid/lazy people to put away a tired mechanic simply because it would be refreshing to do something else for a change, the Nerf Stick of Terror is the only recourse. Thus, IWAY will be smacked with the Nerf Stick of Terror. Not because it's overpowered, but because it's vastly overused. Which is, in many ways, worse.

Akathrielah · Feb 21, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Warrior : Tactics line just plain needs work. HoD helms needs to be removed.

Ranger : Crippling Shot needs EITHER its cost increased slightly (15E) or have its recharge increased slightly (2 - 3 Seconds)

Pet AI needs to be upgraded from completely retarded to semi- retarded (or better)

Quick Shot may need a buff, as does Precision Shot, Called Shot and Power Shot.

ANet MAY want to take a look at Dual Shot's buff multiplying property.

Elementalist : Air line needs more punch period. The fact that the so- called single target nuking line is out spiked by all classes except for monks and necromancers unconditionally is silly (and its outspiked by necromancers if you factor in armor)

Fire line needs to have its ridiculous recharges, energy costs and cast times reduced (is Meteor Shower worth its 5 second cast and 60 second recharge?)

Earth Line is OK at the moment, I'm not sure if anyone can think of anything that is particularly bad about that line, recharge on some skills can use some reduction perhaps. (Eruption, Crystal Wave, Both snares)

Water Line drop recharges and energy costs across the board. A water elementalist shouldn't need 4 skills to accomplish what a ranger can do with one.

Necromancers : Curse Line needs to have many of skills reduced in recharge and cast time (Rigor Mortis, Weaken Armor, Barbs, Lingering Curse, Price of Failure, etc). Chillblains needs to have its cost reduced to 15.

Drop cast time on all minion spells to 2 seconds.

Mesmer : Make Diversion 2 seconds to cast again, increase the damage on Empathy so it isn't laughable. Ignorance needs to be reduced to 10 (maybe 5?). Chaos Storm needs to have its area of effect increased and its effects made stronger. Wastrel's Worry needs to have its damage increased. Blackout may need some looking at (too strong?)

Clumsiness and Ineptitude need looking at, they are laughable at the moment. Distortion (as suggested by others) needs to have it readjusted to 4...1. Ethereal Burden's recharge and cast time may need to be reduced.

Energy Drain and Energy Tap needs to have its recharge reduced to (15?) 20 seconds. Spirit Shackles and Spirit of Failure can use a reduction in cast time to 2 seconds. Channeling may need to be made stronger? Mantra of (Elements) definately needs a boost.

Arcane Mimicry needs to have its recharge reduced to (30?) 45 seconds.

Monk : Peace and Harmony needs a buff, badly. Increase regen,
decreased recharge time, etc.

Healing Hands needs to have its effects made more potent.

Mark of Protection needs something... not sure how would you make it more effective.

Smite line... oy. Aside from the Scourge spells, Smite hex, and SoH
the other spells just need work. Not entirely sure how, but at the moment they simply aren't worth bringing.

Tortoise · Feb 21, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

I don't get the need for a cooldown on the heal party. A realistic cooldown like 2 seconds wouldn't really do all that much. Alot of teams carry two copies of the spells and although you can spam Heal Party there aren't all that many situations in which you actually have to do that. A longer recharge then 2 seconds kinda seems strange to me (though I can't really point out why).
Personally I think reducing the range would be far more effective for most problems associated with Heal Party.

I'm also unsure about a nerf to Distortion. Yes, it is a good skill when used properly but it hardly is overpowered and can be dealt with. It isn't that hard to punish distortion users with some collective wanding. Though it has a couple of uses the main impulse for it's use is gale. Take a way the gale and a lot of monks will have a lot less incentive to be using distortion.

Finally I don't think OoB should be nerfed. As it is now OoB will net 40 energy in a minute (let's forget about faster recharge). If you encount for the health loss it basically only nets 30. Mantra of recall on the other hand will reap 36 energy. With OoB you trade in 6 energy for a more flexible use. Doesn't look that imbalanced to me.

twicky_kid · Feb 21, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Distortions stance type gives it the edge. You get knocked down hit distortion will save you from death. Gale is on every single players list right now. Without gale in the metagame how affective will distortion really be?

Personally I've found something much much better that allows me to maintain the same affect as distortion forever for only a 10e cost. IMO there are worse things than distortion out there. Because its a stance and can be used at any time w/o any change of being interrupted its used widely. Not sure about a nerf to distortion yet.

NightOwl · Feb 21, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

I'm fairly confident that Anet already knows what they're going to change. Just wish they'd get on with it already, or at least say what they have in mind so that I can start prepping for the new metagame.

Manic Smile · Feb 21, 2006, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Manic, here is the issue: most groups run ONE prot monk, not two. Sure this might change, but I can't see that happening. Change it to target other and two player farming teams will form up, and they will be far more invinci, far faster, and I've no doubt have far better dmg output, than the current single player farmers. And this will happen simply because people NEED to farm with a partner. UW and FoW is a challenge for a solo player, but once you know the ropes a pair has no problem with either of these maps.

2 x Mo/N or N/Mo - prot spirit and BR on eachother. One takes SoJ the other tainted or spiteful, or just about any other combo of eiltes around.

I know this is not going to stop farming and I can't really see how you will stop PS from being effective without breaking it's intended use. At least 2 man parties force people to have some cooperation and "team" play.

And I can't just see fixing gale...it's not going to stop the warrior heavy pvping.

Ghull Ka · Feb 21, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Not to tread where I do not belong, but Heal Party spam can be shut down with a single Distracting Shot, can it not? A wise E/Mo would surely Blinding Flash a ranger that got too near, but the possibility is there. So why change a skill to "balance" it for PvP when it can be "balanced" by the skill user's enemy already?

Nerfing Ressurection Signet!? Because people use them in PvP to rez their teams!? Pity the thought! Good grief, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and if it's on the horizon then there's another skill that's been screwed over by PvP at large. IWAY teams rez-chain. Well, duh, when you're all dead, you rez up. If anything, they should take out the "recharges when you get a morale boost" crap and put it back to "can be used once per mission only".

Though it would be more necromantic than warriorlike, "I Will Avenge You!" could be changed to exploit each corpse that it uses. Although that would shift it into the "corpse control" category and open up a whole new can of worms. And we can't have that. No, most likely, it's the Orders that will be given the shaft.

(BTW, To reply to earlier posts, Orders were already given a reduced range a few patches ago... they used to be the entire map, and now they're radar range only.)

And that's a shame, in my opinion. I enjoy using Orders. I'm PvE only, and it's just great throwing the odd Order up and hearing warriors in my party get all giddy about how much damage they're doing. "Hey guys, bring physical weapons, I'm gonna bring Order of Pain on this quest!" Sweet. Now one of my favorite skill types will likely be changed and made less-than-before, simply because it's over-used or borderline abused in a style of gameplay that I have nothing to do with. How much do you want to bet they keep the sacrifice, the cost, and the recharge (in the case of OotV) and only lower the damage? That seems pretty much par for the course.

Oh, and nerf Offering of Blood?! Why, because it's "useful" ffs? Red Engine Go That. Its place on my skillbar means I don't get to bring Life Transfer or Grenth's Balance or Well of Power. Well fine, at least it's effective. Or at least it has been effective... the amount of people crying about it may soon change that, and now it won't even be worth equipping. And why cry about it, because everyone uses it? Well hell, it's not the fault of any Necromancer that Monks get shafted for energy management skills. They've got to put Blood Magic up to 9 in order to net 10 energy from it, and those attribute points don't just grow on trees. They've also got to give up their elite (though I know how "noob" it is to even think about using Word of Healing in PvP, gotta boonprot or you're just not superhypergosuefficient enough to be "competitive"). Please. Leave Offering of Blood alone. It's fun and useful and worthy of my elite slot. Don't scrap it just because you want to dabble with the precious metagame and keep things "balanced" (until the next widely used skills start making the scene, that is).

As has been the case for every skill "balance" to date, PvE FTL. Again. As always. G'head, ANet, we know it's coming and we can't do anything about it. GG.

Lady Lozza · Feb 21, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic Smile

I know this is not going to stop farming and I can't really see how you will stop PS from being effective without breaking it's intended use. At least 2 man parties force people to have some cooperation and "team" play.

lol I would honestly prefer two man farming teams, this game is so social but because players can farm solo they do. Farming is boring as, but necessary for clothes horses like myself. So bring on the "other" nerf for PS

My guildies and I will run 2 man farming teams day in day out, and have running commentary on our TS channel. I get money (for armour) and I get to socialise, what more could a girl want?